I didn't know you could still get these!!!!!!!

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I didn't know you could still get these!!!!!!! Empty I didn't know you could still get these!!!!!!!

Post  nightwatchman on Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:59 pm

I didn't know you could still get these!!!!!!!! No
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Post  deadbait on Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:18 pm

i dont use these but i dont see why there so bad i bought a joblot of tackle once and there was one with it i tried it in my own mouth lol and it didnt damage me if a learner cant chin a pike its a lot better than leaving hooks in Very Happy

when i used to pike fish with my grandad about 15 years ago he had one with spikes on the end Shocked
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Post  Lefty on Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:41 pm

I have to admit they are not as fierce as they used to be but in my (tiny) mind I still think they are barbaric.

As far as I'm concerned they should be banned and if somebody can't unhook fish without using one then they shouldn't be allowed to fish.

Sorry if you don't agree but I'm sure there are more people who do agree with me than don't.
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Post  deadbait on Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:49 pm

your entitled to your opinion mate but why are they barbaric what harm do they do i read the pac has got them banned but cant find out what harm come to a pike if there used ? and they cant be as bad as setting a hook into a pike mouth each to there own Very Happy
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Post  nightwatchman on Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:16 pm

The original ones used to have rough edges at the end of each spring that used to dig into the Pikes flesh and while the newer ones might have rubber ends I think the fact they stretch the pikes mouth to its physical limit must be causing them harm.

Don't know about you lot but when I'm in the dentist chair and they say "open wide" and I lay there with my mouth stretched open with a mouth full of tools by the time they finish my jaw is killing me. I'm just glad he doesn't shove a gag in my mouth too!

We all know pike aren't as hardy as they look and anything that reduces suffering has got to be a good thing. Wink
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Post  Lefty on Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:24 pm

deadbait wrote:why are they barbaric what harm do they do
Imagine you had a sprung loaded device forcing your mouth open as far as it can possible go. Have you seen the Saw film (can't remember which one) and what happens in that?

deadbait wrote:what harm come to a pike if there used ?
You mean apart from potential muscle, teeth, flesh and jawbone damage?

deadbait wrote:and they cant be as bad as setting a hook into a pike mouth
By that I assume you are against setting hooks into a fish's mouth? If that is the case, why do you go fishing?

I don't wish this to descend into a slanging match. Please think about what you are saying and your comments. I hope you can see the reasoning behind them being withdrawn and why people scorn them.


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Post  greg on Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:32 pm

a pike can depress one in its mouth, i've seen it. not condoning it. but its got to be better than a bang on the head.
tho's grip things that rapala make look worse to me, i've seen them used aswell...
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Post  Lefty on Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:35 pm

Perhaps a sizable pike would have enough power in it's jaws to close it but what about the smaller pike?

And those Rapala things - UGH !! affraid
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Post  greg on Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:42 pm

well like you said, that kind of damage would happen on small jacks.
as we all know its easy to unhook a large pike.
i understand why you react like you do lefty, deadbaits just having his opinion Very Happy .
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Post  noodle on Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:12 am

im not against the use of gags as i feel if an angler has gone to the trouble to buy unhooking gear for pike albeit misplacd the good intention is there to go fishing armed with the correct tools

and with a little help those anglers can become better anglers

ive got a good few gags that have been given to me by anglers who ive spent a bit of time with Very Happy
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Post  deadbait on Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:59 am

Lefty wrote:
deadbait wrote:why are they barbaric what harm do they do
Imagine you had a sprung loaded device forcing your mouth open as far as it can possible go. Have you seen the Saw film (can't remember which one) and what happens in that?

deadbait wrote:what harm come to a pike if there used ?
You mean apart from potential muscle, teeth, flesh and jawbone damage?

deadbait wrote:and they cant be as bad as setting a hook into a pike mouth
By that I assume you are against setting hooks into a fish's mouth? If that is the case, why do you go fishing?

I don't wish this to descend into a slanging match. Please think about what you are saying and your comments. I hope you can see the reasoning behind them being withdrawn and why people scorn them.



no i love setting hooks into pike mouths i just dont think there that bad at all like i said each to there own i know for a fact jerkbaits do more damage than a gag should we ban these ? Very Happy
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Post  nickcarpy on Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:26 am

after agree with noodle,least they took time to get unhooking gear.Not idea but better than leaveing hooks in!,thats if they used right an not abused...But at the end of day its better to go with some one who knows Very Happy


Last edited by nickcarpy on Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Lefty on Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:47 am

greg wrote:well like you said, that kind of damage would happen on small jacks.
And it's the small ones which hopefully grow into larger ones and then breed. If these little ones don't live then it damages the survival rate of the species. (only to a small extent I know, but.....)

greg wrote:i understand why you react like you do lefty, deadbaits just having his opinion Very Happy .
I know, but something like this (gags) puts me straight into defensive mode.

noodle wrote:i feel if an angler has gone to the trouble to buy unhooking gear for pike albeit misplacd the good intention is there to go fishing armed with the correct tools
I agree wholeheartedly with that statement noodle. But wouldn't it be better if items that could cause damage weren't allowed to be sold in the first place? The PAC have banned them for a good reason.

noodle wrote:and with a little help those anglers can become better anglers
Again, I agree 100% with that. All other forms of angling get plenty of advice and tips in the weekly/monthly magazines all the year round along with fishing programmes on TV. What does the pike get? A few months of exposure reporting all the big catches and comments on how hard they fight and how they make a great photo opportunity.

I know that these self same articles cover unhooking, handling, fish welfare etc.. but not enough in my opinion. Carp anglers get lots of exposure about everything about the fish, life cycle, correct tackle to use, different rigs, baits, lines, rods, reels etc...etc... They even get dedicated magazines and DVDs, clothing and luggage ranges.

Esox Lucius gets a fraction of this exposure and still suffers with the 'pest' tag of many years ago. The only way to make pike fishing better for everyone all round is for more exposure and articles on them covering EVERYTHING about them and particularly how to care for them.

deadbait wrote:i know for a fact jerkbaits do more damage than a gag should we ban these ?
I dare say that it is the factory fitted hooks that come on these that do the damage. Usually they are overly large and more like a boat anchor than a fish hook. Decent honest thinking pike fishermen will either leave these on the shop shelf or swap out the hooks to smaller ones that aren't nickel plated or stainless steel.

Again it comes down to educating people in the 'right' way to do it. Most pike anglers whom I meet on the banks are nice friendly people who will always swap advice, thoughts, tactics etc.. If they pass this advice on to other less knowledgable anglers then that's great. The problem comes when advice is given then ignored because it wasn't read in a magazine, seen on a DVD or TV programme or passed onto them by Grandad. And even worse is when that person has a go at you for trying to help them.

Folks of the older generation fished for pike using the barbaric method of letting the fish actually swallow the bait before striking. And because pike have teeth, you used a gag to keep it's mouth open. Back when they were starting out, pike were seen as a pest and had to be removed from the said water. They were taught that that was the only and proper way to catch pike. Thankfully, this is becoming scarcer now but the problem still exists when they pass on their knowledge of pike fishing to younger people. That way we come up against the problems of massive hooks, late striking, poor indication and all the other 'no no' ways of fishing.

To me (and plenty of others) a pike gag is a relic from the past that has no place in modern fishing.
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Post  nickcarpy on Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:54 am

agreed lefty,same with gaffs an stuff!!! Very Happy Very Happy Now on a fun side,why dont you like gags lefty???Is it because they put a striaght jacket on you first pal like in your profile pic lol! lol! lol!
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Post  Lefty on Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:10 pm

Yeah and I don't care much for the Electroconvulsive Therapy either Very Happy
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Post  Andy Webster on Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:36 pm

An inexperienced angler could do a lot of harm to gills with a glove. But we shouldn't discourage all newbies. After all we have all been there. The aim should be to learn more pike friendly techniques over time.
Lefty, I know yiu prefer single hooks. Barrie Rickards was convinced they do more harm than trebles. Mick Brown thinks the opposite. Two great guys.
Alan Dudhill is trying to discourage tackle importers from bringing them into britain. If I thought every new piker would have the benefit of an experienced guy to show them how to confidently insert fingers into gills then we could do away with them. That won't happen.

Piking is undoubtedly hazardous to pike, but without pikers they would be in a far worse predicament.

Perhaps we can do a poll on who has ever used a gag.

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Post  adie1200 on Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:45 pm

I've used one a couple of times in my teens when i first started fishing But only used it a couple of times and didn't like it so binned it !
But i don't think the new ones are half as bad now with the bars instead of the pointed forks the old ones had !

I wont use one but i can see were a new to piking angler with no experience And no one to help them out could benefit from one of these until they get to know how to do it properly !
It would be far better for them to use one than them getting into difficulty and causing the pike a lot more harm and maybe even leaving a snap tackle inside a pike Shocked

My opinion anyway Very Happy

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Post  dave78 on Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:58 pm

i was given one when i first took up piking, i used it on the first fish i caught, and it still managed to close its mouth!!!!! weather it was a strong fish or bad gag, who knows............... needless to say i never used it, or anyother since Smile

i feel confident handling pike now, and unhooking them safely, for myself and the fish, but i do understand the fear of the newbies.
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Post  nightwatchman on Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:18 am

When I was a teenager in the 70's, I knew very little about Piking and gags were freely available in tackle shops but I only used mine once and then binned it!
Piking has come a long way since them days and in theory with all the literature available plus DVD's and the internet there should be no need for them?



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Post  onetoner on Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:10 am

gags where do you start? we"ll i have taken a pair out my mates box and chucked them in the water in the past. me i would not have them myself as i have no use for them, then again what about the inexperienced first time pike angler thats not familiar with the fish, should we really leave them to catch a fish and not be able to open the mouth, and if they did cut there hands (and not feel it ) whille trying to unhook it.
i do not not condone gags but if some people did not use them then we would have even more dead fish on the bank
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Post  noodle on Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:04 am

deadbait wrote:
Lefty wrote:
deadbait wrote:why are they barbaric what harm do they do
Imagine you had a sprung loaded device forcing your mouth open as far as it can possible go. Have you seen the Saw film (can't remember which one) and what happens in that?

deadbait wrote:what harm come to a pike if there used ?
You mean apart from potential muscle, teeth, flesh and jawbone damage?

deadbait wrote:and they cant be as bad as setting a hook into a pike mouth
By that I assume you are against setting hooks into a fish's mouth? If that is the case, why do you go fishing?

I don't wish this to descend into a slanging match. Please think about what you are saying and your comments. I hope you can see the reasoning behind them being withdrawn and why people scorn them.



no i love setting hooks into pike mouths i just dont think there that bad at all like i said each to there own i know for a fact jerkbaits do more damage than a gag should we ban these ? Very Happy

id like you to quantify that statement, and perhaps also defend the damage gorgebaiting does that would be deadbaitiing with two trebles in modern money, not to mention the fact your holding an alien species in your photo, and if you returned the fish alive you are in breech of the wildlife and countryside act 1981, lets face it any large alien predator is going to damage pike in the long term as so many predators competing for the same resource ......

i get sick of reading tripe like that about lures
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Post  deadbait on Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:34 pm

i use big jerkbaits atleast once a week and they sometimes do make a mess but i like pike fishing with them so its not going to change at the end of the day if people are really that botherd about pikes welfare dont fish for them full stop

and i love catching zander and they always go back but what does that have anything to do with gags or jerkbaits ?
Wink Very Happy


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Post  nickcarpy on Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:56 pm

lets keep it friendly lads please or we will lock this thread.
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Post  adie1200 on Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:20 pm

I second that Nick !!
Keep it friendly chaps please Wink

We have had a few run ins of late and we wont put up with any falling out on our forum It is and will stay a friendy site and if theres anyone that keeps making attacks on others they will be removed !!

( not saying that is happening on this thread i'm just making a point )

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Post  Lefty on Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:21 pm

I did say in my earlier post that (quote) "I don't wish this to descend into a slanging match" (unquote) but when people are of differing opinions then feathers can be ruffled.

Deadbait, by saying that jerkbaits cause more damage, are you referring to the hooks, the physical size and weight of the lure or some other aspect? Please, as noodle says, explain your statement regarding you know they do more damage than gags.

Also, you say in your last post that you use jerkbaits knowing they may make a mess but like fishing with them. Surely that is very unsporting regarding fish welfare?

Let's try to have a debate without the fisticuffs though lads I love you
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