I have a theory on how to produce BIG pike (following from the Italian geezers thread)

[Andy Macfarlane]

I think along with lots of prey-fish, the BIG pike have probably become used to having to eat more substantial meals like lots jack-dub-pike, which would in turn, allow the smaller prey species to proliferate.

Think about it. A 50lb+ fish isn't going to sustain itself for long eating small roach. It would have to spend a lot of time eating small prey to sustain itself and let's face it, pike aren't exactly known for their stamina. It's going to have eat more substantial meals than that, IE: other pike, including doubles.

With the absence of a naturally high number of small jacks, the remaining pike will have grown to abnormal sizes.

Bear in mind a pike can comfortably eat another pike up to a 3rd of it's own bodyweight, so theoretically a 52 lb pike could quite easily eat a 16-17lb pike without much fuss. Quite frightening really when you think about it.

Theoretically you could create an environment like that with selective culling of jacks (not all of them but a large selection) to a certain size and using those culled fish, chopped up, as feed, for the bigger girls. Once the jacks have all but gone and the bigger fish have grown on, the bigger pike would have little choice but to up the size of their diet.

[kell]

Hummm good therory but would take hell of a livebait float if you were to use a 15Lb pike to catch a bigger pike but what monsters.

[Andy Macfarlane]

LOL......I wasn't suggesting using 15lb baits. I was merely suggesting that's a potential part of their diet, which makes you think what is considered a 'jack' over there.

A 15lber maybe...."Ach, it's just another pesky jack!!"

[tootall]

yes it would work - but essentially what you would be talking about is creating a commercial water for huge pike. Not the sort of water i would want to fish...and imagine the pressure it would get from 'the travelling circus'. Those lovely huge pike you'd spent years rearing wouldn't last 5 mim due to the stress of being constantly angled for.

Its a nice idea in theory but in practice it wouldnt work ImO.

The reason those pike in europe get so big is the vast quantities of bait fish available (including other big pike) and a severe lack of angling pressure.

[nickcarpy]

now drayton as moved on from a match fishery because carp have got to big and kept smashing poles ect,not ideal as match men want there fish in faster as instead been lead a merry dance!.this as turned into a carp runs mecca water,anyway that water did a forty a few years ago!so it proves that we have allready got none trout commercial waters like andy says,but there are breeding carp so you will get small prey fish awell.[but they do net it to take them out every year]but sadly the drayton fortie is dead but could they be more?

[Pikey_Mike]

The theory is sound....but the fact is yes a pike can take prey 1/3 it's size...but pike about 20lb seem to be as big as they go, in terms of physical size...by that i mean size of mouth etc.

while I am more than sure there are 50lb pike in UK waters, no way one of them is gonna gutz a 15...aint happening!! I honestly think the biggest pike that will be food to another is about 7lb, regardless of how big the old girl is, I can't realisticly see a Pike taking a bigger Pike than that.

Edit: I say that about the 20+'s through experience, biggest pike I have witnessed was 34.6. I can't speak for 40+'s but from ym experience, Pike at around 20lb seem to be about as big as they go, structure wise.

[n.d.r.]

GoOD Mr. Andy Macfarlane ... With youre theory we wait "grandma' pike"

Thank you for ideeas and informations

[ginger321]

imagine trying to pop up a 10lb pike deadbait

Im sure we have all found the occassional dead jack in the shallows. Its never occured to me to use it as bait.

Probably need a three trebles on one trace and have to drag it out with a bait boat...............a plan is forming

[tootall]

There's some great pics on another site of a big fat 18-19lber with fresh jaw marks that run right across its flank...whatever had a go tried as the guy was playing it and you can see by the jaw marks it was easily double the size of the 18+...i'll see if i can transfer the pic....its mindblowing.

So as for the theory they won't go for 15-20lbers, i don't go for it myself. They will have a go at whatever is gonna fill them up for the least effort this time of year.

How you'd even try to fish with any livie/dead over sbout 3lb is beyond me though...plus you start getting into all kinds of ethical 'should you, shouldn't you' kind of debates...

[tootall]

The 18+



And another of a pike that regurgitated another part-digested decent sized pike

[tootall]

I was wrong - that top pike is a whopping 22lb....so even bigger than i thought.

[Andy Macfarlane]

I've had a mate had a 7lber taken from his hands as he was returning by a very (and I mean VERY) big fish and that swam off with it at breakneck speed and there's no way the 7lber was going to put up any kind of fight, to stop what was happening.

Dave Horton has a theory that pike often run with fish to help disable them and aid swallowing. If that's the case, how couldn't a 50lber cope with a 15lber? It's not even nearly a match.

I'm stillnot suggesting we all start culling pike or fishing 15lb livies by the way.

It is merely a theory.

[tootall]

And in principal a good one.

In practice things get much more complicated

[Lefty]

imagine trying to pop up a 10lb pike deadbait

Im sure we have all found the occassional dead jack in the shallows. Its never occured to me to use it as bait.

Probably need a three trebles on one trace and have to drag it out with a bait boat...............a plan is forming

Please tell me that is meant as a joke

[tootall]

I've heard of worse mate...

5lb tench tethered with bricks...
6lb jacks sent out on rafts...