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I have a theory on how to produce BIG pike (following from the Italian geezers thread)

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I have a theory on how to produce BIG pike (following from the Italian geezers thread) Empty I have a theory on how to produce BIG pike (following from the Italian geezers thread)

Post  Andy Macfarlane Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:31 am

I think along with lots of prey-fish, the BIG pike have probably become used to having to eat more substantial meals like lots jack-dub-pike, which would in turn, allow the smaller prey species to proliferate.

Think about it. A 50lb+ fish isn't going to sustain itself for long eating small roach. It would have to spend a lot of time eating small prey to sustain itself and let's face it, pike aren't exactly known for their stamina. It's going to have eat more substantial meals than that, IE: other pike, including doubles.

With the absence of a naturally high number of small jacks, the remaining pike will have grown to abnormal sizes.

Bear in mind a pike can comfortably eat another pike up to a 3rd of it's own bodyweight, so theoretically a 52 lb pike could quite easily eat a 16-17lb pike without much fuss. Quite frightening really when you think about it.

Theoretically you could create an environment like that with selective culling of jacks (not all of them but a large selection) to a certain size and using those culled fish, chopped up, as feed, for the bigger girls. Once the jacks have all but gone and the bigger fish have grown on, the bigger pike would have little choice but to up the size of their diet.
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Post  kell Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:58 am

Hummm good therory but would take hell of a livebait float if you were to use a 15Lb pike to catch a bigger pike but what monsters.
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Post  Andy Macfarlane Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:37 am

LOL......I wasn't suggesting using 15lb baits. I was merely suggesting that's a potential part of their diet, which makes you think what is considered a 'jack' over there.

A 15lber maybe...."Ach, it's just another pesky jack!!"


Last edited by Andy Macfarlane on Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  tootall Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:37 am

yes it would work - but essentially what you would be talking about is creating a commercial water for huge pike. Not the sort of water i would want to fish...and imagine the pressure it would get from 'the travelling circus'. Those lovely huge pike you'd spent years rearing wouldn't last 5 mim due to the stress of being constantly angled for.

Its a nice idea in theory but in practice it wouldnt work ImO.

The reason those pike in europe get so big is the vast quantities of bait fish available (including other big pike) and a severe lack of angling pressure.


Last edited by tootall on Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:02 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
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Post  nickcarpy Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:59 am

now drayton as moved on from a match fishery because carp have got to big and kept smashing poles ect,not ideal as match men want there fish in faster as instead been lead a merry dance!.this as turned into a carp runs mecca water,anyway that water did a forty a few years ago!so it proves that we have allready got none trout commercial waters like andy says,but there are breeding carp so you will get small prey fish awell.[but they do net it to take them out every year]but sadly the drayton fortie is dead but could they be more? Very Happy
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Post  Pikey_Mike Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:55 pm

The theory is sound....but the fact is yes a pike can take prey 1/3 it's size...but pike about 20lb seem to be as big as they go, in terms of physical size...by that i mean size of mouth etc.

while I am more than sure there are 50lb pike in UK waters, no way one of them is gonna gutz a 15...aint happening!! I honestly think the biggest pike that will be food to another is about 7lb, regardless of how big the old girl is, I can't realisticly see a Pike taking a bigger Pike than that.

Edit: I say that about the 20+'s through experience, biggest pike I have witnessed was 34.6. I can't speak for 40+'s but from ym experience, Pike at around 20lb seem to be about as big as they go, structure wise.


Last edited by Pikey_Mike on Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post  n.d.r. Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:04 pm

GoOD Mr. Andy Macfarlane ... With youre theory we wait "grandma' pike" cheers

Thank you for ideeas and informations Smile
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Post  ginger321 Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:07 pm

imagine trying to pop up a 10lb pike deadbait affraid

Im sure we have all found the occassional dead jack in the shallows. Its never occured to me to use it as bait.

Probably need a three trebles on one trace and have to drag it out with a bait boat...............a plan is forming Suspect
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Post  tootall Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:37 pm

There's some great pics on another site of a big fat 18-19lber with fresh jaw marks that run right across its flank...whatever had a go tried as the guy was playing it and you can see by the jaw marks it was easily double the size of the 18+...i'll see if i can transfer the pic....its mindblowing. Cool

So as for the theory they won't go for 15-20lbers, i don't go for it myself. They will have a go at whatever is gonna fill them up for the least effort this time of year.

How you'd even try to fish with any livie/dead over sbout 3lb is beyond me though...plus you start getting into all kinds of ethical 'should you, shouldn't you' kind of debates... Laughing
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Post  tootall Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:42 pm


The 18+

I have a theory on how to produce BIG pike (following from the Italian geezers thread) Pike_b11

And another of a pike that regurgitated another part-digested decent sized pike

I have a theory on how to produce BIG pike (following from the Italian geezers thread) Pike_v10
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Post  tootall Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:56 pm

I was wrong - that top pike is a whopping 22lb....so even bigger than i thought. Laughing
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Post  Andy Macfarlane Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:14 pm

I've had a mate had a 7lber taken from his hands as he was returning by a very (and I mean VERY) big fish and that swam off with it at breakneck speed and there's no way the 7lber was going to put up any kind of fight, to stop what was happening.

Dave Horton has a theory that pike often run with fish to help disable them and aid swallowing. If that's the case, how couldn't a 50lber cope with a 15lber? It's not even nearly a match.

I'm stillnot suggesting we all start culling pike or fishing 15lb livies by the way.

It is merely a theory.

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Post  tootall Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:20 pm

And in principal a good one.

In practice things get much more complicated Wink
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Post  Lefty Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:28 pm

ginger321 wrote:imagine trying to pop up a 10lb pike deadbait affraid

Im sure we have all found the occassional dead jack in the shallows. Its never occured to me to use it as bait.

Probably need a three trebles on one trace and have to drag it out with a bait boat...............a plan is forming Suspect
Please tell me that is meant as a joke Evil or Very Mad
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Post  tootall Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:33 pm

I've heard of worse mate... Shocked

5lb tench tethered with bricks...
6lb jacks sent out on rafts...

Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
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Post  Andy Macfarlane Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:37 pm

Can we get away from the idea of fishing over-sized livies? Nobody suggested the idea, especially not me.

I was talking dietary requirements, not methods of capture.
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Post  tootall Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:47 pm

I think everyone understands that Andy - don't worry the 'pike police' won't be coming for you... Laughing
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Post  Lefty Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:47 pm

Andy Macfarlane wrote:Can we get away from the idea of fishing over-sized livies? Nobody suggested the idea, especially not me.

I was talking dietary requirements, not methods of capture.

I think most people realise that Andy, but some people may not grasp what you mean and take it the wrong way. You said nothing wrong in what you originally posted, as far as I'm concerned.
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Post  Andy Macfarlane Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:49 pm

Just seems it was mentioned more than just the once....you know?
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Post  tootall Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:50 pm

Aye fair enough...lets not get onto that again then Wink
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Post  Andy Macfarlane Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:51 pm

Besides, feck the Piking Police....I could teach them more about pike than they imagine they'll ever know.

I've seen the rigs with fixed leads on no lead dump sytems these so-called experts punt around like their way is the safest.
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Post  ginger321 Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:29 am

Lefty wrote:
ginger321 wrote:imagine trying to pop up a 10lb pike deadbait affraid

Im sure we have all found the occassional dead jack in the shallows. Its never occured to me to use it as bait.

Probably need a three trebles on one trace and have to drag it out with a bait boat...............a plan is forming Suspect
Please tell me that is meant as a joke Evil or Very Mad

Calm yourself down no need for evil faces.........

With a big dead bait taken out on a bait boat id space the trebbles out with one near the head and one in the flank and not bother with the tail root as Im not casting it. With the hooks positioned that way its an instant strike rig and one thats not failed me since my first boat. A wee pondskater orca. Touch wood ive never deep hooked a pike. Ive also never live baited for fishing as to me that makes it a blood sport Twisted Evil - discounting maggots........

Its not the idea of fish feeling pain, if that bothered me i wouldnt fish. Its the idea of teathering a live fish and allowing it to swim round in circles till it either dies or gets taken.

Anything getting dragged out with my boat is very definetly dead.
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Post  nickcarpy Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:14 pm

lets keep it carm lads please : Neutral Neutral Neutral
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Post  esoxjeff Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:06 pm

played a good fish in a couple of years ago....BIG FISH ....it dived deep to my feet...then the pressure eased off....i was left with a 12lb suffering bite marks across its back...as a flash of yellow turned away into deep water.... Crying or Very sad
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Post  stubbo Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:11 pm

Lefty wrote:
Andy Macfarlane wrote:Can we get away from the idea of fishing over-sized livies? Nobody suggested the idea, especially not me.

I was talking dietary requirements, not methods of capture.

I think most people realise that Andy, but some people may not grasp what you mean and take it the wrong way. You said nothing wrong in what you originally posted, as far as I'm concerned.
but is how the numtys read it thats the thing Shocked
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