hook placement, half baits

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Post  matt859 on Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:58 am

I had far too much time on my hands this weekend and whilst making some traces I got to thinking about hook placements for half baits. If a pike grabs the full bait sideways on swims away and then starts to manouvre the bait round so that it can be swallowed head first, what does it do when it picks up the tail half of a half bait? will it manouvre the bait round so that it goes down tail first (more aerodynamic) and therefore should I reposition my hooks so that the top one is closest to the tail?

what do you think?
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Post  memacca on Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:26 pm

With a full bait they instinctively swallow head first as you know Matt and after fishing with half baits and banking pike if the bait is still in the pikes mouth then its always been facing head first towards the throat so they obviously prefer it to go down like this so its not going against the fins. That said though, my mate nearly all of the time hooks the bait with the top treble nearest the head so going against the grain so to speak. Must say though that it hasn't made any difference to his capture rate (or has it).  Maybe their getting hooked before its had time to turn the bait which won't make a difference in theory,  but I would of thought that if the bait is hooked head first then the pike would feel the trace wire if turning to take the bait and maybe get spooked Matt......Kev
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Post  matt859 on Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:46 pm

yeah I see that. I have had a few pike where a tooth or two have been pulled out where the wire trace has swung round during the fight etc. I nearly always have a hook in the centre of the bait regardless of the size as I can see that a pike will grab the bait side on which will put the centre hook right in the middle of the mouth, which gives me a relatively good chance of a decent hook hold on an early strike. Perhaps im over thinking lol. I need to get out and fish more....
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Post  memacca on Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:59 pm

Aye nearer the hook to the end of the bait = deep hooked pike, especially in the warmer months. Always 3" apart for me, unless I'm using sprat then its 2" apart Matt. Wish I COULD get out and fish more mate, as almost all my fishing is done on rivers due to no Stillwater's the rain has made it impossible, never been out since beginning of September now  Crying or Very sad 
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Post  silkmen on Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:33 pm

I always hook my baits top treble in the root of the tail second level with the dorsal fin in the body of what ever bait iam using
with the treble in the middle of the bait it doesn't matter which way the pike picks up the bait or which way it turns that hook in the middle of the bait will near on every time hook your pike
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Post  tomthepiker on Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:37 pm

I'm same as silkman it works every time apart from when I have to use two single hooks due to the rules of a fishery
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Post  silkmen on Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:16 pm

another reason for that bottom hook in the middle of your bait is its sucured at the bottom of your trace
most top trebles are held by a rubber of some kind hence they slide up and down to facilitate the size of bait your using
id much prefer that bottom treble to take a hold than the top
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Post  stubbo on Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:04 pm

silkmen wrote:another reason for that bottom hook in the middle of your bait is its sucured at the bottom of your trace
most top trebles are held by a rubber of some kind hence they slide up and down to facilitate the size of bait your using
id much prefer that bottom treble to take a hold than the top
not a lover of them sliding jobs much prefer the fixed treble which i make myself
what i do is make a load in differant sizes to accomadate bait size....... Very Happy 
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Post  memacca on Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:19 pm

Can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would favour or even consider using a sliding top treble confused . I understand the use of it but all it is going to do is dramatically reduce the hook hold. Like you and probably most on here stubbo I make all my own traces with fixed hooks....... Sliding hooks.... scratch
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Post  psion on Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:54 pm

I have always use a sliding treble.

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Post  memacca on Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:04 pm

Think maybe i could of worded my last post a bit better lads, apologies. But can't see the point of moving hooks personally psion, do you always get good hook ups?. Surely when the top treble comes into contact with the fish on the strike its going to move and end up more or less along side the bottom treble, so in effect relying on one hook to take hold, that's if the fish hasn't already spat them out. If it works for you then good on you mate.....
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Post  noodle on Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:56 am

memacca wrote:Think maybe i could of worded my last post a bit better lads, apologies. But can't see the point of moving hooks personally psion, do you always get good hook ups?. Surely when the top treble comes into contact with the fish on the strike its going to move and end up more or less along side the bottom treble, so in effect relying on one hook to take hold, that's if the fish hasn't already spat them out. If it works for you then good on you mate.....

i dont like sliding trebles but if you strike a rod into a pike moving what a few feet of line in the process, do you think an inch or two will even be a factor at the rig end?
in all honesty ive never thought about that untill now but maybe its one of those 'truths' that turn out not to be

personal i will still avoid them as it means that treble could move during the cast
the wire will get damaged by the hook moving
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Post  memacca on Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:44 pm

I'm sure your aware though John that there's a strong possibility that the sliding treble isn't going to hit home on the strike until it becomes in contact with something solid which in this case is the bottom fixed treble mate.....
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Post  silkmen on Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:17 pm

how do I fix that top treble guys when iam making my traces ive always used the sliding hook because I don't know how to keep it fixed. but cant find crimps big enough to go over the shank of the treble to secure it.idrather use a secure hook
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Post  adie1200 on Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:29 pm

have a look on here it shows you how to do what you want to know  Wink 

Linky
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Post  silkmen on Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:50 pm

adie1200 wrote:have a look on here it shows you how to do what you want to know  Wink 

Linky
nice1 adie ill be trying that out shortly
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Post  memacca on Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:22 pm

Have you tried twisting rather than crimping Jake ?
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Post  silkmen on Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:35 pm

memacca wrote:Have you tried twisting rather than crimping Jake ?
twisting kev???
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Post  memacca on Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:12 pm

Twisting the wire on the bottom hook and swivel instead of crimping mate like in the link adie posted.  I use a twiddling stick but a lot of anglers make the twist with forceps.  I twist all my traces through personal preference......


Last edited by memacca on Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:23 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post  silkmen on Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:18 pm

memacca wrote:Twisting the wire on the bottom hook and swivel instead of crimping mate. I use a twiddling stick but a lot of anglers make the twist with forceps.  I twist all my traces through personal preference......
never tried it kev ive sussed getting the fixed top treble know tho
it will save bent baits when casting now
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Post  memacca on Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:03 pm

Good presentation can make all the difference mate......
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Post  stubbo on Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:16 pm

silkmen wrote:how do I fix that top treble guys when iam making my traces ive always used the sliding hook because I don't know how to keep it fixed. but cant find crimps big enough to go over the shank of the treble to secure it.idrather use a secure hook
i use the ryder system never let me down yet i short piece of wire 30lb plus make into a vee shape pass it through the treble eye then through the crimp at whatever distance you want then crimp with the correct crimping tool very important to use the right tool for the job like i said it has never let me down yet Very Happy 
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Post  silkmen on Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:02 pm

stubbo wrote:
silkmen wrote:how do I fix that top treble guys when iam making my traces ive always used the sliding hook because I don't know how to keep it fixed. but cant find crimps big enough to go over the shank of the treble to secure it.idrather use a secure hook
i use the ryder system never let me down yet i short piece of wire 30lb plus make into a vee shape pass it through the treble eye then through the crimp at whatever distance you want then crimp with the correct crimping tool  very important to use the right tool for the job  like i said it has never let me down yet Very Happy 
stubbo I get that 1 pal nice1
if my bottom treble holds well will the same crimp be ok to use on the vee
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Post  stubbo on Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:31 pm

yes as long as it will take 3 wires through it pal will send you a photo of it pal tomoz Very Happy 
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Post  noodle on Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:33 am

Yup I'm aware of that but your only talking inches about the same as is moved anyway.
I'd still avoid me like I've said above I wouldn't trust the wire with something that moves on it like a hook would in any fishing situation
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