dead bait straight ledger running rig question....

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Post  newie2010 on Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:55 am

Now the reason i ask, is because i use the 2nd rig, probably like most, but was thinking saturday after missing 2 good runs on this rig, is there an advantage in using the 1st rig in the pictures. Ignore the fact it shows a 1oz bomb, i dont use that, i use heavier, but im ONLY looking at the 2 rig setups

if with rig 1, the issue is the on the cast where the dead bait would come up the line and possibly land near it on the lake bed with a chance of the pike biting through it, could you not add a wire trace or 2, or even make your snap tackle longer???

whats the difference in using this rig:

dead bait straight ledger running rig question.... Leger

compared to this rig:

dead bait straight ledger running rig question.... Pike
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Post  tootall on Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:52 am

Rig 1 is the one i use the most, but i tend to fish waters that aren't very snaggy or weedy. The most important thing is to feather the line so that the bait always shoots out in front before it hits the water, meaning that you are in direct contact with the lead, the deadbait is out in front, and you can feel it down to the lake/riverbed. I always use 2oz+ of lead too to ensure the lead isn't moved on the take, and also that i can tighten down onto it as is required - this is very important IMO.

Rig 2 I only use on very weedy water with either pop ups or neutrally buoyant deads so that he lead always hits bottom and the deadbait rests slowly on top of the weed etc. Again 2oz+ of lead.

Never needed to use an uptrace with this method and have never had a bite off.

As long as you are fishing tight lines (really tight) with a rear drop off and you have feathered the cast, there should be no issues whatsoever Cool

PS all my traces are about 22" long.
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Post  newie2010 on Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:54 am

thought so..

thank you very much, im going to change my rig i think, fishing my lake 2moz..
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Post  tackle tart on Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:43 pm

good explaination tootall its generally what i would have said as i use both styles of rig myself but a couple of things i do a bit different is :::

1) once bait and lead hit the lake bed bottom i all ways lift the rod to move lead and straighten out the trace to hopefully make sure its not got a tangle of any thoughts

2) regardless of never having an issue with bite off i would all ways use an uptrace and reccomend the use of one
it will only have to happen once a bite off and thats ONE TO MANY
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Post  tootall on Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:48 pm

tackle tart wrote:good explaination tootall its generally what i would have said as i use both styles of rig myself but a couple of things i do a bit different is :::

1) once bait and lead hit the lake bed bottom i all ways lift the rod to move lead and straighten out the trace to hopefully make sure its not got a tangle of any thoughts

2) regardless of never having an issue with bite off i would all ways use an uptrace and reccomend the use of one
it will only have to happen once a bite off and thats ONE TO MANY


Thats a very fair point Wink
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Post  newie2010 on Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:51 pm

guys thats great, im on it tomorrow on 1 rod and i will have an extra trace incase.
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Post  cavemandom on Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:49 pm

tootall wrote:Rig 1 is the one i use the most, but i tend to fish waters that aren't very snaggy or weedy. The most important thing is to feather the line so that the bait always shoots out in front before it hits the water, meaning that you are in direct contact with the lead, the deadbait is out in front, and you can feel it down to the lake/riverbed. I always use 2oz+ of lead too to ensure the lead isn't moved on the take, and also that i can tighten down onto it as is required - this is very important IMO.

Rig 2 I only use on very weedy water with either pop ups or neutrally buoyant deads so that he lead always hits bottom and the deadbait rests slowly on top of the weed etc. Again 2oz+ of lead.

Never needed to use an uptrace with this method and have never had a bite off.

As long as you are fishing tight lines (really tight) with a rear drop off and you have feathered the cast, there should be no issues whatsoever Cool
PS all my traces are about 22" long.

How do you achieve a feathered cast????

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Post  tootall on Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:05 pm

Just use your index finger to very lightly press on the lip of the spool. This slows down the lead and forces the bait out in front. Takes a little practice to get right but its an essential part of accurate casting and you will be able to hit features like holes on overhanging trees and opposite maginal shelves etc by leatning how to do it. If you feel the lead is going to far, too fast you can prevent casting into sych overhanging trees etc by simply clamping your index finger down hard on the spool. Smile
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Post  tootall on Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:08 pm

Further explanation and discussion here:

http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=35646
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Post  stubbo on Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:07 pm

newie2010 wrote:Now the reason i ask, is because i use the 2nd rig, probably like most, but was thinking saturday after missing 2 good runs on this rig, is there an advantage in using the 1st rig in the pictures. Ignore the fact it shows a 1oz bomb, i dont use that, i use heavier, but im ONLY looking at the 2 rig setups

if with rig 1, the issue is the on the cast where the dead bait would come up the line and possibly land near it on the lake bed with a chance of the pike biting through it, could you not add a wire trace or 2, or even make your snap tackle longer???

whats the difference in using this rig:

dead bait straight ledger running rig question.... Leger

compared to this rig:

dead bait straight ledger running rig question.... Pike
i find that the short bomb link has a tendency to ride up the main line where with the other rig is a lot better at casting at range the bomb and the bait seperates during the cast having tried most rigs i find this one of the best tangle free rig even though it looks like it would tangle
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Post  newie2010 on Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:30 am

stubbo wrote:
newie2010 wrote:Now the reason i ask, is because i use the 2nd rig, probably like most, but was thinking saturday after missing 2 good runs on this rig, is there an advantage in using the 1st rig in the pictures. Ignore the fact it shows a 1oz bomb, i dont use that, i use heavier, but im ONLY looking at the 2 rig setups

if with rig 1, the issue is the on the cast where the dead bait would come up the line and possibly land near it on the lake bed with a chance of the pike biting through it, could you not add a wire trace or 2, or even make your snap tackle longer???

whats the difference in using this rig:

dead bait straight ledger running rig question.... Leger

compared to this rig:

dead bait straight ledger running rig question.... Pike
i find that the short bomb link has a tendency to ride up the main line where with the other rig is a lot better at casting at range the bomb and the bait seperates during the cast having tried most rigs i find this one of the best tangle free rig even though it looks like it would tangle

agree there. ive has that issue, so, how would you get round it? use a semi fixed bolt rig?
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Post  tootall on Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:05 pm

u could always tie running ring to the trace swivel with PVA?
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Post  noodle on Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:11 pm

number two for me for all staright lead work, although recently i had to use some ledger stems which are more like number one

reasons number two casts better is less prone to tangling, and if you use the lightest line you can tends to eject the lead quickly in snags i also add some cork to the top of the link just to help pop the line away from any underwater crap that could lead to a bit of damage

i dont like 1 for these reasions

if your fishing blind some waters do require this where a foot or two either way means you may hit weed or silt then the short distance between lead and line means your line may not run freely, with the long link even if it does get jammed you have a bit of room for movment before the lead jams
the lead flying up the line and on braid the plastic run rings do get cut very quickly (you can cut this down with an uptrace though as the ring will stop against the joint where the wire/mainline are
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Post  newie2010 on Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:18 pm

tootall wrote:u could always tie running ring to the trace swivel with PVA?

yes you could Very Happy good idea
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Post  noodle on Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:22 pm

newie2010 wrote:
tootall wrote:u could always tie running ring to the trace swivel with PVA?

yes you could Very Happy good idea

it gets hard work though doin that in winter with cold wet hands and ice forming the low water temp not dissolving pva for a while if at all etc etc

tried that early on in my lake district years and gave up, saying that though the new tube mesh things would make it easier to tie up but then the small area would leave them prone to not dissolving
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Post  tootall on Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:25 pm

noodle wrote:number two for me for all staright lead work, although recently i had to use some ledger stems which are more like number one

reasons number two casts better is less prone to tangling, and if you use the lightest line you can tends to eject the lead quickly in snags i also add some cork to the top of the link just to help pop the line away from any underwater crap that could lead to a bit of damage

i dont like 1 for these reasions

if your fishing blind some waters do require this where a foot or two either way means you may hit weed or silt then the short distance between lead and line means your line may not run freely, with the long link even if it does get jammed you have a bit of room for movment before the lead jams
the lead flying up the line and on braid the plastic run rings do get cut very quickly (you can cut this down with an uptrace though as the ring will stop against the joint where the wire/mainline are

Good idea - will give that a go. Cool
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Post  noodle on Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:33 pm

with the cork when you tighten down it still sits on the bottom but when the drop off drops off it rises, also in weed it helps the run ring stay clear as its just underneath it gives an inch or two around the ring to help keep it clear
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