chinning heavy weight pike

there are 8 photos i can say thay are harming the fish. who's going to email them.
is the pac going to. doubt it.
does anyone on here have real proof to back any of this up.


there was a 26lb pike caught by a member of this site it was weighed by the gills. no one said anything then. fact.

greg wrote:
there was a 26lb pike caught by a member of this site it was weighed by the gills. no one said anything then. fact.

I wasn't here. Weighing fish by the gills or the chin is an entirely different thing. When did this happen?

Andy Macfarlane wrote:

greg wrote:
there was a 26lb pike caught by a member of this site it was weighed by the gills. no one said anything then. fact.

I wasn't here. Weighing fish by the gills or the chin is an entirely different thing. When did this happen?

i think you and another member at that time posted the photos for him. around 2yrs ago.

Being weighed by the chin??....I very much doubt it was me.

thanks for everbody responce to this very debatable subject hope we all keep it friendly chaps looking back at that article by nev some of these fish were also heavy weight salmon caught in u.s.a. they were found to have spinal damage due to being lifted by the chin or jaw area some of these fish were found again in the river they must of done some kind of autopsy then found the spinal damage this in theory could happen to large pike in nevs appinion like i said before i have chinned pike say upto 15lb its all about being confident in lifting a big fish heard some horror stories about the subject like the guy trying to chin avery large pike caught on a lure . He ended up with a thirty trying to swim off with the hooks deep into the guys thumb i bet that hurt and this guy is a very top end pike fishermen celeb almost

Andy Macfarlane wrote:I chin pike all the time and have held them unsupported for a short time depending on the size and build of the fish.

What about pike that hit lures at 30mph and tailwalk, bulldogging like mad on the end of 100lb braid?? Surely that would do far more damage to the vertebrae than gently lifting a pike out of the water by it's chin??

I've recaught dozens of pike I've chinned, so I'm not convinced it's as big as problem as some believe.

i know where your coming from andy but for most of the time the pike is being surported by the surrounding water in theory mate

Explain how a tailwalking pike is being supported by water. The very term means it's out of the water bar it's tail and very often that's not even the case. I've had 100s of pike go completely airborne on the end of a lure setup. The forces involved when that occurs must be vastly greater than when chinning a fish. In fact, I can't even draw a similarity.

the force acting on a stationary object is gravity. Suspend the object and there is an equal and opposite force pulling that object apart. This is not the case for a moving object such as a fish either in water or tail walking where there are no forces pulling so strongly apart. Think of a tower of lego. Easy to break by pulling apart but a bit of sticky tape will stop it from breaking if you throw it to a friend.

Maybe your pike are so fat from eating bream that they can't fight for toffee but I've nearly had rods pulled from my hands, had to brace myself against the gunwhale of a boat, nearly been pulled off my feet and this is with the drag set to give. Gravity creates a bigger force than a pike hitting a lure at 30mph with virtually no give at the other end? How is there little force? Have you thought about the last time you had a big pike on a lure rod? I can assure you that's plenty of force and damn sight more than anything gravity can come up with. I've never chinned a fish and ever thought I might be going for a swim. It's a dead weight and that's the best it can muster.

A lure coming towards you as you retrieve is doing a couple of mph at the most. Big pike wallops your lure at 30mph in the opposite direction. Will someone explain to me how that doesn't create a massive force??

I know it does because I've been on the other end when it happens.

Tell me this as well, how come a 20lb Pike can be suspended vertically, quite easily using one hand, remaining completely under control within seconds, yet I often have to use both hands to control a pike, horizontally while it's supported by water, for minutes at a time? It's because there's plenty of force and that's before the pike has even left the water. It's not a dead pike you're bringing in. It's a live fish of considerable weight doing it's best to get 'away from you'...ie: in the opposite direction. If there wasn't so much force, we wouldn't need a drag and pike fishing would be very boring indeed.

Not much force.....I'm sorry but this is nonsense.

A lot of force, yes. But a different kind of force.

Not a force that is trying to stretch the fish.

There are lots of reasons why I can't recommend holding a 26lb pike by the gills with no support on the body.

If it was ok to do this then we would be weighing our pike with a gaff through the chin. We use landing nets and weigh slings so that the whole of the pikes body is supported when it is out of the water. To then dangle the fish by the chin is hypocritical. Another consideration is the potential to damage the gills if the pike thrashes about, or the damage caused if the fish is dropped.

By the way, I do land pike without a net when lure fishing, but I believe that I can do this safely by supporting the pike.

Andy

Andy Webster wrote:A lot of force, yes. But a different kind of force.

Not a force that is trying to stretch the fish.

Different force perhaps but are we only taking about stretching fish here? Sudden deceleration can't be good for the fish. If it tugs at your end, it sure as hell tugs at their end too. There are hooks, hook-holds, vertebrae, jaws, scissors, internal organs, all potentially taking the brunt but there's little evidence that it's doing much harm, just like there's a lack of decent evidence supporting the idea that chinning fish does as much harm as we're being led to believe.

Who chins fish by the gills anyway? Chinned fish are held by the jaw.

I suppose to some degree, I'm playing Devil's Advocate here. I guess what I'm driving at is we can't sit back and say chinning fish is harmful and we won't do it, when we're happy to play a fish on the end of 100lb braid, with a pair of 4/0 trebles to anchor it with for 5 minutes, whooping with delight when it takes to the air.

if your on a waltza ride at fair an you get a sudden jerk it hurts but if your in water[pike takin lure]surely the water takes some force?

Lego? Waltzers?

Hardly the same thing. Going from 30mph to a virtual standstill is going to be forceful no matter if you're in water or not. Besides, a tailwalking, bulldogging pike doesn't have the luxury of water to soften the blow.

chinned pike will take around 30sec to lift out the water then return. net it then it does a wee dance in your net, how long till its returned ?.

poach, i said near the same as you in my first reply.


lure rod are like sticks not much give being hit at 30mph it feels like your arms being torn off. if i/we can feel the force of the pike thrashing around. that blows your theory out the water andy. if being supported by water helps it, wont the landing from it tail walking hurt, bit of a belly flapper at the pool does for me. after all its a very delicate fish. thats why we use mats ?.

has anyone found any real proof yet that chinning does harm, apart from what noodle was talking about. as thats another matter.

greg wrote:chinned pike will take around 30sec to lift out the water then return. net it then it does a wee dance in your net, how long till its returned ?.

poach, i said near the same as you in my first reply.


lure rod are like sticks not much give being hit at 30mph it feels like your arms being torn off. if i/we can feel the force of the pike thrashing around. that blows your theory out the water andy. if being supported by water helps it, wont the landing from it tail walking hurt, bit of a belly flapper at the pool does for me. after all its a very delicate fish. thats why we use mats ?.

has anyone found any real proof yet that chinning does harm, apart from what noodle was talking about. as thats another matter.

and again that isnt chinning but a vertical hold

lets have a look at some avatars and who is holding fish under the chin/jaw, lets be pedants please

Andy Macfarlane wrote:Explain how a tailwalking pike is being supported by water. The very term means it's out of the water bar it's tail and very often that's not even the case. I've had 100s of pike go completely airborne on the end of a lure setup. The forces involved when that occurs must be vastly greater than when chinning a fish. In fact, I can't even draw a similarity.

like i said andy most of the time mate not all ........

heres one for debate you never see the carp lads chinning a 30lb carp would it do any damage to the fish . I can just see terry hearns on the front of anglers mail chinning a 40 lb mirror

noodle wrote:

greg wrote:chinned pike will take around 30sec to lift out the water then return. net it then it does a wee dance in your net, how long till its returned ?.

poach, i said near the same as you in my first reply.


lure rod are like sticks not much give being hit at 30mph it feels like your arms being torn off. if i/we can feel the force of the pike thrashing around. that blows your theory out the water andy. if being supported by water helps it, wont the landing from it tail walking hurt, bit of a belly flapper at the pool does for me. after all its a very delicate fish. thats why we use mats ?.

has anyone found any real proof yet that chinning does harm, apart from what noodle was talking about. as thats another matter.

and again that isnt chinning but a vertical hold

lets have a look at some avatars and who is holding fish under the chin/jaw, lets be pedants please

vertical hold or chinning, whats the difference anyway ?.

what was in this artical, was it just about big trout water pike or pike in general.


how do you all lift the pike of your mat to return it, honnest answers plz

heres a honest answer greg i net my big pike carryb them to the mat in the net unhook them quickly tranfer to weigh sling weigh ,photo carry back to water in weigh sling so no chance of dropping job done

greg wrote:

noodle wrote:

greg wrote:chinned pike will take around 30sec to lift out the water then return. net it then it does a wee dance in your net, how long till its returned ?.

poach, i said near the same as you in my first reply.


lure rod are like sticks not much give being hit at 30mph it feels like your arms being torn off. if i/we can feel the force of the pike thrashing around. that blows your theory out the water andy. if being supported by water helps it, wont the landing from it tail walking hurt, bit of a belly flapper at the pool does for me. after all its a very delicate fish. thats why we use mats ?.

has anyone found any real proof yet that chinning does harm, apart from what noodle was talking about. as thats another matter.

and again that isnt chinning but a vertical hold

lets have a look at some avatars and who is holding fish under the chin/jaw, lets be pedants please

vertical hold or chinning, whats the difference anyway ?.

what was in this artical, was it just about big trout water pike or pike in general.


how do you all lift the pike of your mat to return it, honnest answers plz

too true Greg i bet we've all done it at some stage.

but as Stubbo said some of us now handle all pike with more care, but perhaps we should be MORE careful in future

ill chin em all, anything with a bit of weight though gets additional support along its flank

holding a fish by its jaw (chinning) isnt doing any damage to pike any extra moves like swinging it while your walking is a no go

just about every angler with a pic of a pike in his avatar has the pike chinned in one way or another

the original texts concerned muskie and northern pike feeding on salmonoids in the US canada from what ive read. in uk fishing, certain parties then started postulating that the same could be true for our troutwater pike as some do seem to struggle with repeat captures, and in turn the thinking was the pike were not surviving.

take your pick on what to beleive.

im of the mind if you can show me a better way to control a pike of any size without chinningthem then im all ears. untill such a time ill chin em and cause the fish far less damage due to the fact im in total control while im unhooking moving the fish etc

one thing im against is trebles and nets, potentially six points a net and a fish wriggling or rolling is a big no no for me.

noodle wrote:ill chin em all, anything with a bit of weight though gets additional support along its flank

holding a fish by its jaw (chinning) isnt doing any damage to pike any extra moves like swinging it while your walking is a no go

just about every angler with a pic of a pike in his avatar has the pike chinned in one way or another

the original texts concerned muskie and northern pike feeding on salmonoids in the US canada from what ive read. in uk fishing, certain parties then started postulating that the same could be true for our troutwater pike as some do seem to struggle with repeat captures, and in turn the thinking was the pike were not surviving.

take your pick on what to beleive.

im of the mind if you can show me a better way to control a pike of any size without chinningthem then im all ears. untill such a time ill chin em and cause the fish far less damage due to the fact im in total control while im unhooking moving the fish etc

one thing im against is trebles and nets, potentially six points a net and a fish wriggling or rolling is a big no no for me.

well said mate , i do agree with totally,as for trebles(9 pionts) not a problem for me as i have been using single for many years now( no loss of hooking rate)

stubbo wrote:heres one for debate you never see the carp lads chinning a 30lb carp would it do any damage to the fish . I can just see terry hearns on the front of anglers mail chinning a 40 lb mirror

Entirely different fish with a far smaller jaw in relation to it's body. Besides, we generally chin pike because a) It's safe, predictable and controllable and b) it's a good way of getting the fish to the mat and opening it's huge jaws wide to remove a potentially dangerous set of trebles (for the angler AND the fish) without any extra handling of the flanks etc. It's practically a no contact method of unhooking. Landing a carp requires a net because it's jaw wouldn't support it's weight, so a net must be employed, which vastly increases the contact with the fish and the potential for damage to the scales/slime coating.

stubbo wrote:heres a honest answer greg i net my big pike carryb them to the mat in the net unhook them quickly tranfer to weigh sling weigh ,photo carry back to water in weigh sling so no chance of dropping job done

good job and well cared for pike.

how would you do it from a boat.. would you still use your big carp net bud.

Andy Macfarlane wrote:Going from 30mph to a virtual standstill is going to be forceful no matter if you're in water or not.

I once went from 30mph to 0mph in a VERY short distance and it was bloody painful Ill tell ya! Nearly wrote me motorbike off he did, by pulling out in front of me.

And I've gone from 55mph to 0mph virtually instantly which hurt even more. Torn deltoid muscles and bruising/burning caused by seatbelt but I managed to walk (crawl) away from it. I was told by the police that they fully expected to see a dead body in the wreckage.

And I couldn't claim even though it was proved to NOT be my fault.